Doctor Mike On Anxiety & Social Media | Conversation w/ Jonathan Haidt
Chatting with Jonathan Haidt, the popular moral & social psychologist, about everything from social media to injustice to depression/anxiety. I have read a couple of his books and I have to say that Jonathon Haidt is one of the best out there in describing complex psychological situations in easy to understand terms. I truly recommend his books and website! Please let me know if you enjoy these long-form conversations as I'd love to chat with more great thinkers moving forward.
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- Doctor Mike Varshavski
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I am not exactly sure whether we should totally blame social media on this. I agree with Mr Haidt's suggestion on creating rules and a meter on who to let in just like we do in our normal society. Imo there's a fine line between disagreement and hate speech/abuse. It's the worst in people on social media that screws things up and trying to see where someone is coming from is not the solution,we also aren't mind readers. I started using social media when I was 13 year old, things were pretty different back then and after 2016 when the right wing party won election in my country things changed quite rapidly. The hatespeech, focus on religious issues, archaic ideas towards women etc, never have I ever got exposed to such type of content or hatred online before.
That colour looks beautiful on you
I agree that I’m getting bored of stupid click bait titles. If someone looks like they’re selling something/ themselves then I’m not interested and I tell the algorithm.
Wow
The subsequent robert systematically crawl because rule frustratingly drag on a vulgar porch. precious, romantic donald
Love his discussion of concept creep
Guarantee the old man is barely on social media
Is youtube social media? All I do is try to educate myself on here I don't get on facebook
What a great guest. He is an absolute brilliant mind
If social media was a town square it would be a city during the Purge.
What was the conservative magazine he mentioned?
I have ptsd and chronic depression I’m 18 going 19 in may this year any tips for becoming more resilient to the mental health problems like mine
Such a good interview! So many good thoughts to ponder, thank you. I especially liked the last point on nuance. People these days seem to be so polarized, seeing the world in black and white with no desire to understand anyone who doesn't look, act and think like they do. Media, politicians all seek to separate us, categorize us, cause us to see others as the enemy. It's gotten so divisive! We need to come together, listen to each other, find common ground. It definitely feels like we are going through a rough patch as a nation but I know there are good people out there who are ready to move in a more positive direction. I know I am!
Don't mind me....I don't have anything i want to say, just feeding the algorithm.
This interview definitely peaked my interest. I just finished reading Kahneman and Ariely, I guess Haidt is next on my list!
Notice how threy're SITTING for 45 mins
I was diagnosed with leukemia as a child, 31 years ago. I went through 3 and half years of 8 different types of chemo, steroids, 6 bone marrows biopsies, 22 spinal taps, and 200 blood tests. I also developed 4 learning disabilities from the chemo. My parents were told (when I was in 4th grade and off chemo for 1 year) I would never graduate from high school. I ended up graduating from a high school for kids with LDs, went onto college, graduated from college, and eventually was able to live independently. I love my life and I would never change what happened to me as a kid, even when I was diagnosed with medical PTSD last year and started seeing a therapist. When COVID reared its ugly head, I was working with adults who have intellectual disabilities in a day program. Day program closed and we, the staff, were given the choice to work in the group homes or take unpaid leave. My oncologist was surprised that I chose to work temporarily in a congregate setting. I told her "what's happening to my clients now is way worse than happened to me as a kid 30 years ago. I need to be there for my clients now". From March-July I worked in the group homes; I was first staff to come back to day program when it reopened in August, then in September I got a new job as a teacher's aide at my high school. This is what has gotten me through COVID. Being helpful to others and thinking of others helped me get through these very long months. Thank you for this video and all the other ones.
Can u do a video on social anxiety or maladaptive daydreaming
Why does the guest sound like Brandon Rogers. 🤣
One thing that kept running through my head, while talking about social media and the havoc it causes, is that, it is always easier to attack someone when you don't have to look them in the face. When all you are seeing is a screen and not a human being. That person becomes an it not a Being.
Would childhood abuse count as trauma? Idk I’ve always thought of it as trauma when my dad burst open my door after I barricaded it and backed me into a corner. I’ve never really thought about it though? Like would that be trauma if it wasn’t life threatening? He never actually hit me so surely it doesn’t count?
The longer format worked well . I like to hear that you can be serious too. Thank you .
Thank you for this inspiring and thought provoking video! Great to see more 'food for thought' rather than HRworld "fast food"
We raised our kids with humor and lighted-hearted sarcasm. That does not translate to written posts... Btw at parent teacher conferences I would tell the teacher that learned English as second language when the teacher what there original language was I would say sarcasm...
So I'm 60 suffer anxiety and depression but I'm really what my picture shows. My only question is who wouldn't like dr. Mike??? But having anyone know who I am and can respond to me, prevents me from occasionally posting something that might be received negatively. In school, there is always those cool cliques that can say anything and get others to agree... With or without social media there is still that super power ... I have 5 kids and have seen both pressures on them as they were growing up.... It was not that different when I grew up (born 1960).
"Unfairness is a part of life"
My parents let me deal with my stresses and I have watched people get anxiety and depression all around me but thanks to them I've been able to avoid such things
I understand this completely, and I appreciated the video. And just to get it out there, I think tiktok over covid has turned into a positive non glamorizing for people watching it. Normal humans with flaws are more interesting and relatable.
It's funny how he talks about how social media is harming gen z. Fast forward to the pandemic and boomers are all over the conspiracy theories.
wow, i think, while i neither fall into gen z nor into any of the target groups this video is talking about, as if this is the very first video i saw, that actually, pretty onpoint sums up the problems, the modern mentality of the general mainstream towards, not only social media, but the modern landscape that is the internet past 2015 is having in society. And the both of them only spoke about that in the focussed lens of minors and their developement over it, more than a year ago no less. Yet i can't help but feel that this video holds significant relevance. That lack of nuance that they are criticising at the end of it, pretty much sums up the entire problem that modern politics via twitter, discussion culture, with people not being able to formulate an opinion OR counterpoint that spans more than 2 lines of text and doesnt just flatout try to deconstruct the entire oposing point in 3 words faces, with how consumable media is only giving us a very focussed lens of what we are confronted with, by nature of algorythms, and how people shape both their criticism and their general opinion on any random matter by that standart... You, sirs have truely, probably without even intending to, just perfectly deconstructed one of the most prevalent social issues we are facing right now, in a 50 minute video.
Thank you Dr. Mike for having the insight to make a video focused on anxiety and social media and presenting it in the format you did. I think it is especially effective regarding the algorithms behind social media and your description of it as "neurological bio hacking" and a contributor to a form of addiction. Your comments concerning the responsibility of social media companies in developing their algorithms are spot on. Jonathon Haidt's analogy of creating social media to building small town/city is great messaging, too! The video was very informational and helpful.
This is gross.
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they video you made last year actually made me delete social media and you will never guess how much my life changed in 1 year I got better grades Payed attention more to the little things I had very bad anxiety but it’s better now but I still have it My parents and me had a better relationship I got out of my room and did sports I had less suicidal thoughts My mental health was sooo much better Btw if you need help getting of social media bc it addictive and ruining your mental health plz have you parents tell you to get outside and tell you to get of it when they see you watching it.THANKS SOOO MUCH DR MIKE LOVE YOU SOOO MUCH
Such discussions definitely need to continue, especially now that physical interactions are limited. Social media usage has gone up during the pandemic and mental health issues have risen.We need to be reminded now, more than ever, that what we encounter online doesn't define us.
Respectful? How about your guest being respectful? I was diagnosed with PTSD after almost my entire immediate family was in a terrible accident that left my father in a vegetative state where we got to watch him die for 10 months, he died while i was taking care of my grandmother for cancer and she did not last another year, 2011. I moved home only to lose my childhood home and become homeless and jobless after both were washed away after Sandy. So this "Im sad" you both said after losing a relative I stopped listening to both of you cause you do not know what happened before that loss. I was going to check out his books because I used to enjoy your videos but if you can be this callous about Mental Health. I STILL have nightmares that mix those 5 years together.
I agree with all of this, and appreciate the talk, between professionals. I myself have been thew a lot of bad times, and feel like others label other people to an extreme extent to the point of adding new words to find, ways of hurting others. I think people think others are lying to them all the time, and would rather put there take on that person than believe them. I feel the same when it comes to politics too, we have swang the other way too much now, and the people who have swang it that way call themselves leftist, its why i say im right winged. Im a relist and believe in science and that there is differences between man, woman, black and while, were not the same and thats okay. We need both left and right, its not good and evil.
I imagine most people who need therapy believe they are the outlier.
Heard it here first folks, Jigsaw had it right from the start 🥳💦🤫 Also 45:00 you give a mouse a cookie.....
It’s not black and white and the more you look into it the more complex and complicated it is on an individual basis.. referring to anxiety only not any form of social media .. I agree with everything you say
One concept of animal behaviour is a trait known as “mobbing”. Birds, like chickadees and nuthatches use it to overwhelm threats like owls. It’s a defence mechanism to protect the group from outside threats. It would be interesting to see the overlap with social media cancel culture and mob attacks and the victim culture Dr. Haidt talks about. If we train youth to feel attacked by alternative opinions, a social species will have a tendency toward mobbing.
The childlike zinc tinctorially cause because jennifer remarkably sin an a old celsius. superficial, paltry work
I have suffered greatly by online bullying around 2006-2009 because I loved playing world of warcraft and would lead my raid like a BOSS. There are lots of salty mean boys out there that didn't like this. They felt I was the "girl's guild" that was outshining them. I've learned to not feed trolls and own my identity. I agree with so many points you both make about how frustrating the internet is as well as wanting accountability like a town hall. Or mistaking some faceless troll as a peer. If we can remove the anonymous aspect for trolls, the online experience would be far more healthy . I have no idea how to temper people's minds when it comes to what news is real. I try to watch and read from many sites for news, but it's just bizarre that we live in a world where no one knows what is all the way real, and that you can believe in WHATEVER. It's a YIKES.
As someone in their 40's I understand genZ's anxiety and depression. However why does my mental health seem different? I have been recommended to CBT AND DBT. I have found working with the training book for DBT With my counsellor am having hard time keeping my concentration. I forget a lot. Doesn't help I have high anxiety around people, or being out of my house.
I would like to see Dr. Mike do a similar discussion again, with more panelists if possible. I think both Dr. Mike and Mr. Haidt are very educated and I loved this video, but it would be extremely interesting to hear perspectives from experts in Anthropology or activism or political analysts etc
DBT (CBT) has changed my life for the better! Learning skills I needed and weren't taught as a child was what I really needed. I absolutely thought I was a person that DBT wouldn't work for as I thought I tried everything & honestly thought I was a lost cause. It's been amazing.
wow this was such an insightful video. would love to watch more content like this, or even a podcast to listen to!
Not really Mike. I'd ask why the theoretical 7yr old thinks I look funny, it helps me to know why they think that way. It may look strange to you but it made perfect sense to me when I came out. My wheelchair looks a bit strange, one arm rest has fallen off and the foot plate's too low for me, but as I have really no option for leaving the house, I'm fine with it.
Great interview, however I'm more inclined to agree with Jonathan Haidt's take on social media where several factors are problematic for young people with the algorithms only being one of several factors. I love you Dr. Mike, but I think you're overly defensive of social media (which makes sense as a content creator and heavy user of it, you are bound to have some degree of bias), and too optimistic about the near future of social media and how you think the social rewards are changing to be less image based. For young women especially, there has always been a social reward in looking as pretty as possible in both real life but also in a photo. Even before digital cameras existed my friends and I did that, even before youtube when we made funny videos on ancient (and enormous) VHS camcorders. The social pressures on young women in particular to look a certain way have been around for centuries and looks were even exaggerated pre-photography in portraits (for both men and women.) I also think there's a slight increase in social pressure on men's looks with the recent focus on not just specific kinds of grooming but skincare for men and even makeup lines. Also, I think humans have a natural bias when it comes to beauty that also applies to photography as an artform in which beautiful, well composed, well balanced images will always be pleasing to the eye and get more likes and clicks.
Ive read Haidts book twice, I wonder what he would say about his "no social media until 16" rule being a direct contradiction to antifragility and helicopter parenting. awesome video, youre both great thinkers. Its interesting watching this after your "controversy" which really gets to what people are talking about, feeling personally hurt by something that doesnt effect them at all..
The little drink distinctly squeak because noise reassuringly rob on a simplistic dirt. hard, determined glove
I really noticed the negative dive when Facebook took over Instagram; but I do want to say - if you know how to make the algorithm work for you it can actually be helpful for depression rather than damaging to it. I had major depression after almost dying (and a recovered anorexic/body dysmorphia) I carefully followed hashtags and people that only were about positivity. it enabled me to have positive messages "fed" to my brain every day and really made all the difference in helping me move past it.
Politicians need to learn this concept of nuance...
I think debated topics should be covered more in schools
It's unusual that he says not to coddle young people but then says one should be at least sixteen before getting a social media account...
I think it would be cool if Dr Mike did some interviews with people with whom he disagrees...
Remember kids religion is bad? Idk its helped me more than anything else but okay
Great conversation! Loved how you were able to give Dr. Haidt more insight and detail as to what it's like for young people to be on social media and connect it to the ideas in his book, I think it expanded his understanding (I know it did mine)
To add to that I agree with him that coddling may be a contributing factor, but even if GenZ grew up with the same parenting as millenials or boomers , the enormous effect/load of social media & it's algorithms would still be a chronic stress that no amount of parenting or training could have prepared us for, which is why in addition to finding ways to promote resilience & increasing capacity, there must also be measures to attenuate the psychological load at least a little (education, responsible use, changing the algorithms, treating it like a recreational drug, etc).
He described my life... when he was talking about a car wreck. A little over a year ago me and 2 other family members were in a wreck like a bad one. I came out with a broken rib. One of my family members had a brain bleed and the other one had water or fluid in the brain and almost lost her ear. I still have anxiety, but I’m working on it. I still Will not ride in the car with the person who wrecked us. But I’m getting better. This video is really good. It really connects on how people are feeling. Thank you doctors.
The whole system is against Black people. The black experience is not the same as the Jewish or Russian immigrant experience because those people are white or white passing. Acting like society is a meritocracy and Black kids just have a "steeper climb" but will succeed if they're strong enough is absolute bullshit.
This is the kind of Podcast that I want, That talks about SOCIAL BEHAVIORS with MEDICAL
I've never seen such tight clothes on a man
I like that you admit that you are a narcissist Dr Mike
Guys... it goes even deeper than you think. It’s hard to believe, but we are all PavlovIan creatures who have been programmed from the moment of conception to the present. As a result, all choices that we make are based on prior input and that is what we draw from. The only way to real freedom is to connect the dots of the present with the past. Once you see the connection, you are in a position to make better choices in life. We are programmed creatures who create repetitive patterns over and over again. The trick is to break that old pattern. Admittedly, it is not easy to do, but necessary for real freedom. I know this because I have done it. It’s really amazing.
Such a fantastic video and discussion. We need to see more of this guy, would love to see a follow up chat soon. Love it.
An introduction to Cognitive Psychology should be taught in highschools. Children should learn what cognitive biases are before they're old enough to vote, for crying out loud.
Apologies if it's already been pointed out, but there are no 'leaders' in AA. It is a fellowship of men and women sharing their experience, strength and hope with other alcoholics. If you can prove me wrong, please do.
"I'll credit you when I write that". One of the purest, transparent, enriching interviews on youtube. period
I love this conversation. It is so on point and current. Beautiful.
Watching and listening to this a year after it was published; as a 21 year old now, I can absolutely relate to the thought that 10-14 y/o girls are very much impacted by social media. I struggled with anxiety and depression between those ages. My thoughts are, I feel that I have regulated those feelings and feel that I am coping well now reaching the age that I am. only time will tell of the effects of social media.
3:05 ummmm, isn't tempering the term he was thinking of? You stress metal, and it becomes stronger (more resilient).
I thought that this was a fantastic interview. Thank you!
What is the track in the beginning 🔥
I think just as important, in my opinion only, is the opposite end of the spectrum. The fact that young people these days have no sensitivity.. No empathy. Completely self-involved, angry, violent, destructive.. So much hate.. Is this depression? I don't know.
I'm 16 and I just want to say this discussion is amazing really gave me a better way to approach social media I'm about to share this with my peers thanks for this video
I have always been nuanced in a way despite being a mid to late millennial (1988). I will give people the benefit of the doubt and admit when wrong and when I do and don't agree. I do take on a realistic approach with some cynical tendencies and bias due to patterns and experience, especially in the political world. But I can say it isn't like that at all anymore. People don't want to connect they don't want to reach out to others. I gave 2 roommates I chose. I could of picked other people, but I chose them and they drive me crazy. But they also improve how I think and feel and help me relate to opposing people all the while being responsible in things like rent and utilities. We help each other out and we have grown strong bonds with each other. the difficulty I face is, when people are hard stuck in their ways. It could be physical or mental. But I notice the tendency to get that group tribal mentality and not break free. My personal experience and thoughts would go to tell me that they cannot handle the stress. People these days use many things to escape from the problems of the world. Sometimes ridiculing others on the Internet, sometimes bullying in real life. Sometimes smoking, drinking, drugs (which includes weed and caffeine). They utilize these things and after fully developing their minds and bodies after puberty, they no longer know how to deal with things. Because of that they isolate with things that remove stress and they attack viciously others who aren't like them or others who bring stress. That attack makes them feel better, almost stronger and like they had a victory. My guess is a small dopamine associated with that experience, and the drugs amplify that. Then the publicity the popularity, they feel achievement and then get addicted to that high. The only way to stop and change this is to take it all away like you would a child. Taking their toys away as punishment. Let them cry it out. When humans are hungry enough they will eat their veggies, when they don't have a cell phone they will find new ways about things and get creative. We need creativity back and not with these HRworld videos or social media stuff. But the same creativity like our ancestors who built our knowledge. Plato, socrates, Ben Franklin, etc. We could be a founder but since we get so distracted and caught up we become sheep to the media and politicians and we also cannot advance technology. Imagine if you took away the distractions of people, we might have a cure for cancer and diseases we might unite and love each other. Perhaps this is a rambling of a millennial, but, in my head it makes sense. It could also be my autism speaking, I can't tell anymore haha!
I thoroughly enjoyed this video and it’s topic. My kids aren’t very interested in Facebook, Instagram, SnapChat but they are very aware of them and we often discuss the way in which they are used. I think all parents who are thinking of allowing their kids to set up social media accounts should watch this video first before making a decision. Too many parents are quick to sign their kids up lying about their ages to get them the social media their kids “need” so they can be like their friends and that shouldn’t be the case at all
Social Media is the cigarettes of our times.
Is it just me or did dr mike blush when this man offered to credit him in his writing? 😂🥺
This is such a great conversation about a whole host of subjects! Thank you!
Nuance ❤️
Orange and highlight yellow are not good colors on you, Dr. mike.
Dr Mike Have you felt with suicidal people? How do you handle it? Do you personally have any particular signs you look for in a patient?
I'm watching this for my friend
This is so good
Very insightful conversation
Such a good conversation. I learned new things and reflected on my past and how I’ve grown. I certainly used to think things were black and white, somewhat still do, but I’m getting better at not doing that. I love conversations like this where I can learn and introspect. Hopefully there can be part 2 some day!
Great listen.
*Pulling words out of context So you are saying that we should get into an accident to grow stronger?
I think the bullying building strength idea only works when the bullies are under control to some extent. Mine set me on fire. Literally.
while i agree with what was said 28:00 isn't this similar to what china has been doing with their social credit scores?
Thank you for this.
EXCELLENT talk! Love the piece about reducing polarization by listening to the people you don’t agree with! So vital!!
I made a Facebook and email account just to use it to make accounts
Any recommended resources for people who want to try CBT training on their own?
I kinda see why so many don't think white males can understand how jacked life treats some.
AA is terrible cult. My family was totally wrecked by AA
I reccomend Martial Arts for all children and adults. Nothing better fo non fragility
All he said is sooo freaking true -_-
Fantastic video. Thank you
I am a teenager and have been trying to fix/noticed the constant need I have for my phone. It dosent even need to be turned on but if it isnt near me or in my hand I feel worried and anxious, I can't even sleep without making sure my phone is next to my bed. I'm trying to fix it.